{"id":25607,"date":"2021-07-01T16:22:38","date_gmt":"2021-07-01T14:22:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/?p=25607"},"modified":"2021-07-01T16:23:34","modified_gmt":"2021-07-01T14:23:34","slug":"saskia-wilson-brown-only-diversity-can-allow-for-a-living-culture","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/saskia-wilson-brown-only-diversity-can-allow-for-a-living-culture\/","title":{"rendered":"Saskia Wilson Brown: \u201dOnly diversity can allow for a living culture\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"    <div id=\"chapo-block_60dc88b80b440\" class=\"chapo\">\r\n        <blockquote class=\"chapo-blockquote\">\r\n            <span class=\"chapo-text\">Director and founder of the Institute for Art and Olfaction in Los Angeles, Saskia Wilson Brown is deeply engaged in open access and transmedia practices. As a producer and curator for visual art and film, She co-directed the Silver Lake Film Festival and has consulted on a number of arts, film and transmedia projects. The Institute for Art and Olfaction, founded in 2012, is a non-profit arts organization devoted to experimentation and education in perfumery. Through this structure, Saskia Wilson Brown has launched partnerships with institutions such as Goethe Institut, Hammer Museum, Getty Institute, Huntington Library, and many more. In 2013, she launched the Art and Olfaction Awards, an awards for independent, artisan and experimental perfumers, which she has produced in Los Angeles, Berlin, London and Amsterdam. We interviewed her about her work and issues of diversity, equality and inclusion for our article \u201cAll inclusive&#8221;: Perfumery confronts inequalities in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nez-editions.us\/collections\/nez-the-olfactory-magazine-en\/products\/live-let-die\">the eleventh<\/a> issue of <em>Nez<\/em>, and here\u2019s the full transcription of our interview.<\/span>\r\n        <\/blockquote>\r\n        <style type=\"text\/css\">\r\n            #chapo-block_60dc88b80b440 {\r\n                background: ;\r\n                color: ;\r\n            }\r\n        <\/style>\r\n    <\/div>\r\n    \n\n\n<p><strong>How did you conceive the idea of the Institute for Art and Olfaction?&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For a long time, I worked for the film industry. I was passionate about perfumes and I noticed that perfume culture is shockingly inaccessible compared to film culture. But people have a right to learn about it! I was also preoccupied by questions of representation. The way perfume is presented in the US is very French-centric, but every country has a history of perfume, and this history is rarely represented in advertising and shops. Moreover, France is not only fancy ladies drinking coffee! Why is the European heritage valued so much in perfume? I thought it was necessary to formulate this question and go further than the Euro-centric cultural narrative, so I opened myself to other narrations. I\u2019m not terribly in love with capitalism in general, so I was looking for other approaches to working with smell than commercial perfumery, like olfactory art. Our world doesn\u2019t stop at buying fragrances, as a product perfume is great of course, but why stick to only one approach among many others?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>You spoke about representation, which leads me to the concerns about inclusion and diversity that are getting more and more attention lately around the world. The movement seems to have started in the US, how did you deal with it?&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The US is struggling with its own racist narrative right now. The country is often described as a nation of immigrants, which it is after the decimation of the Native Americans. We\u2019re a former colony of England, we had slavery, and now we have a difficult national identity. The Trump administration stirred up issues of national identity, and the murders of Black people by the police have created a feeling of rage and frustration that is spreading everywhere, including in the perfume industry.<br>The American protest culture is being exported, but the US isn\u2019t the world and people notice there\u2019s room for change everywhere, in different ways. This will happen if some people who have an open mind, students or others, lead the charge and rise up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>We talk a lot about diversity and inclusion, but how do you define them in the light of contemporary events?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s tricky. My father\u2019s Cuban; in the US, I\u2019m considered partially a person of color, but I was raised as a white girl in France. Diversity and inclusion, at its best, is making sure voices that have not been heard to the degree other voices have are heard. But who\u2019s deciding who these unheard voices are? That\u2019s why it gets more complicated, if you see a board of directors consisting of white men and you think \u201cwhat a bunch of white guys\u201d you don\u2019t know what their backgrounds are, it can be diverse in what they believe, the social class they come from\u2026 It\u2019s complex. The way we approach it is: when there\u2019s an opportunity to give a platform to a person who says something or represents something that has not been adequately represented, we give it, but not to the exclusion of anyone else. We\u2019ll never say \u201cno more French perfumers\u201d, they are welcome! The perfumers from Texas also, and we try to present them as equals. We present all the narratives as valid and equal narratives. If we start to tick boxes and ask ourselves if we have enough, for example, \u201clatino perfumers\u201d or \u201cnative perfumers\u201d, we would end up crazy. Also, it would be a disservice to everybody, and potentially taking the risk of alienating people because of their color or sexuality. So let\u2019s be more reasonable, make space for everybody, present them equally and hope that this message helps some change. It\u2019s really hard and tricky, we don\u2019t want to be patronizing.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>In your work, have you met perfumers or apprentices who were struggling to enter the industry because of discrimination?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is who I meet, people who didn\u2019t enter the industry. Why didn\u2019t they succeed? It\u2019s always difficult to say. The perfume industry is very selective, there\u2019s not enough room for everybody. I also didn\u2019t succeed to enter this industry, not because I\u2019m a person of color but because I don\u2019t fit the profile, I didn\u2019t study the right thing beforehand. This is why the Institute\u2019s perspective on this question can be summed up this way: \u201cforget trying to join in an industry that shuts you, there\u2019s plenty of other ways to do this, you don\u2019t need to try to knock down the doors of companies that won\u2019t have you. Create your own company, create a parallel space, it\u2019s easier!\u201c We don\u2019t try to change the industry, it does what it does and it does it very well. It\u2019s not our problem, it just doesn\u2019t represent what we stand for. We try to empower people who want to create their own structures. Why would people want to be part of a club that doesn\u2019t want them? I don\u2019t say that to discourage people from the industry, I have a lot of friends working for big companies and I love them, they do wonderful work.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Do you think we need some sort of \u201cSalon des Refus\u00e9s\u201d of olfactory culture?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are the Salon des Refus\u00e9s! And for every academy artist, you need one in a Salon des Refus\u00e9s, for every Cannes festival you need a Sundance festival of independent movies, that\u2019s what moves culture forward eventually, not only the blockbusters.&nbsp;<br>Imagine the impressionist movement: the things that define it are not the paint brands the artists are using or the patrons, it\u2019s the work. It\u2019s the same at this institute, we focus on the openness of the culture rather than on the captive molecules released by so and so, there\u2019s much more to it than that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Do you see this culture evolving?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The problem of the culture around perfume is that the stories have been written by the companies. There are plenty of beautiful stories but we don\u2019t have an independent record of what happened. And if you don\u2019t know what people have really done, you\u2019re doomed to repeat yourself over and over, this is why history is so important. Only in the last few years have I noticed a real progression, now people aren\u2019t proposing the same olfactive ideas. Due to my position, of course, I have ideas proposed all the time, and I tend to hear the same ideas over and over. But sometimes you can get a record of scent culture, and interests are changing, thanks to <em>Nez<\/em> and other initiatives!<br>The industry\u2019s narratives, on the other hand, haven\u2019t changed all that much. In the current context, unfortunately, certain inequalities are embedded. Capitalism is a source of social injustice, and the perfume industry is capitalist. But within this situation, certain things are possible, and the development of independent creators is a sign of this. There\u2019s a lot of artists working with scent as a concept, outside of perfume.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Do you think that the human problems surrounding the supply of raw materials (such as vanilla from Madagascar or ylang-ylang from the Comoros), in particular the inequalities between Western firms and farmers in developing countries, can be reduced through the process you describe?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We can\u2019t solve capitalism\u2019s problems, but the na\u00efve answer is that it\u2019s only a problem if you think that these raw materials are all you need to work with scents. If you have to buy materials which are produced by people who are exploited, it is indeed a problem, but if you look at the history of perfumes, for a long time people have been working with materials that are local to them, and processing them in simpler ways. Maybe they\u2019re not IFRA compliant but it is still a valid way of working with scents. The perfumes from the Aztec or the Navajo reservations are not less \u201creal\u201d than the ones produced by the industry today, they deserve the same attention. So, there is an alternative, which is to go back to traditional methods; the challenge there is that it\u2019s against the competitive trends. While I say that, I\u2019m still excited about new molecules and new technologies! Ideally, people have to understand the various ways of working with scents and pick the one that works for them. There are options, which is quite encouraging, because strong options allow for a strong culture.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>What else could be done to make olfactory culture even better?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The industry moves slowly because there\u2019s a lot of people in it, but the independents are changing things really fast. What can be done is encourage these people, and tell them they are entitled to work with scents and express themselves. We also have to remember that this is a big world, there\u2019s room for everybody. It doesn\u2019t have to be exclusive; it can be inclusive and just as amazing!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Institute for Art and Olfaction website: <a href=\"https:\/\/artandolfaction.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">www.artandolfaction.com<\/a><\/li><li>Follow the Institute for Art and Olfaction on Instagram : <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/artandolfaction\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@artandolfaction<\/a><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8212;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">&#8220;All-inclusive&#8221;: Perfumery confronts inequalities &#8211; Summary<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/all-inclusive-pefumery-confronts-inequalities\/\">Introduction<\/a>, by Cl\u00e9ment Paradis<\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/shabnam-tavakol-there-is-a-problem-of-diversity-equity-and-inclusion-in-perfumery\/\">Shabnam Tavakol: &#8220;<em>There is a problem of diversity, equity, and inclusion in perfumer<\/em>y&#8221;<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/shyamala-maisondieu-i-had-to-make-my-own-voice-heard\/\">Shyamala Maisondieu: \u201c<em>I had to make my own voice heard<\/em>\u201d<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/chantal-artignan-our-school-should-not-be-reserved-for-a-social-elite\/\">Chantal Artignan: <em>&#8220;Our school should not be reserved for a social elite&#8221;<\/em><\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/alessandra-tucci-if-the-perfume-industry-wants-to-see-more-diversity-in-its-teams-it-can-only-happen-through-education\/\">Alessandra Tucci: \u201c<em>If the perfume industry wants to see more diversity in its teams, it can only happen through education<\/em>\u201d<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/reports\/all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities\/saskia-wilson-brown-only-diversity-can-allow-for-a-living-culture\/\">Saskia Wilson Brown:<em> \u201dOnly diversity can allow for a living culture<\/em>&#8220;<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/mag.komk.fr\/en\/interviews\/mieke-van-de-capelle-we-need-to-help-students-who-want-to-pursue-a-career\/\">Mieke Van de Capelle: <em>&#8220;We need to help students who want to pursue a career&#8221;<\/em><\/a><\/li><\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Director and founder of the Institute for Art and Olfaction in Los Angeles, Saskia Wilson Brown is deeply engaged in open access and transmedia practices. The Institute for Art and Olfaction, founded in 2012, is a non-profit arts organization devoted to experimentation and education in perfumery.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":20515,"featured_media":25601,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"pmpro_default_level":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[3292,675,1416],"tags":[3304,3289,3080,984,985],"coauthors":[3084],"class_list":["post-25607","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-all-inclusive-perfumery-confronts-inequalities","category-interviews","category-perfume","tag-diversity","tag-equity","tag-inclusivity","tag-institute-for-art-and-olfaction","tag-saskia-wilson-brown","pmpro-has-access"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Saskia Wilson Brown: \u201dOnly diversity can allow for a living culture\u201d - Nez the olfactory cultural movement<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Director and founder of the Institute for Art and Olfaction in Los Angeles, Saskia Wilson Brown is deeply engaged in open access and transmedia practices. 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